Sage Fly Rods -- The Industry Leader
Exclusive Interview by High Country Flies
In the Spring of 2003 High Country Flies co-owner Howard Cole conducted this exclusive interview with Marc Bale, VP of Sales & Marketing for Sage. In an effort to give our (and Sage's) customers a different perspective and possibly better understanding of our sport, Marc provides an insiders look into the leading fly rod manufacturer and the fly fishing industry in general.HCF: Could you give a brief history of the company, as in what year, how, and by whom Sage was founded?
MB: Sage was founded in 1979 by Don Green. It was originally called Winslow Manufacturing (after the city of Winslow on Bainbridge Island) but within a year had changed its name to Sage. Bruce Kirschner joined the company in 1980. The partnership of Don and Bruce operated the company until May of 1994 when it was sold to the Joshua Green Corporation. Bruce is currently the CEO of Sage and Don, although partially retired, is still the VP of Research and Development. Like all of us, he’s in here working every day and obviously still very much enjoys it.
HCF: High Country Flies knows that at one time Sage was the largest fly rod company in the world. Is this still true?
MB: As far as we know, yes. You have to take into consideration that there is no industry clearing house for sales data, so the best we can do is work from estimates. The situation is also a bit confusing because Sage builds primarily high-end performance fly rods and there is a large low-end market that is, for the most part, opaque to us. So it’s entirely possible that there is an Asian based manufacturer who may build more units than we do, but we simply don’t know who they are. Suffice it to say that we build and sell around 60,000 rods per year, and among the branded manufacturers we think that still makes Sage number one.
HCF: Since its inception Sage has been a leader in the fly rod industry. Without jeopardizing any trade secrets could you touch upon two or three specific products, techniques, or business approaches that has made you different from your competition?
MB: The business formula that Sage has employed and very much plans on continuing to employ is simple. We believe strongly in specialty, performance products built for and distributed through specialty shops. That’s been the core of our business since 1980 and as mentioned is still what we do today. Within that we put a huge emphasis on our R&D, which by any standard keeps us very different from all of our competition with the possible exception of Loomis. Sage employs four full time R&D personnel and 100% of their time is dedicated to designing, testing and manufacturing the very best fly rods that we can possibly build—a claim that is simply impossible for our competition to maintain. Plus, when you look at those personnel, you’ll see a lot of years of experience in the business of building fly rods.
Beyond these considerations, you’ll find that limiting our distribution to specialty fly shops and better general tackle stores has been a real, ongoing key to our success, and every year we instruct our manufacturer’s representatives to keep this philosophy in place. Finally, we try and do the very best consumer marketing that we possibly can, and that means sport show attendance, web sites, catalogs, ad campaigns and key employee programs. It all adds up to quite a challenge, but it’s one we feel strongly is well worth making and is certainly, in our opinion, the best way to go to be number one.
HCF: From an employee standpoint, something that is a little different is a program I think you call your Home Work Plan. Could you explain how this program works and if you have other imaginative programs for your employees?
MB: We call them Home Wrappers and they are employees who wrap rods in their homes. The number fluctuates a little from time to time, but typically we employ about 20 Home Wrappers out of our total employment of about 150 people. Home Wrappers pick up partially completed rods here at the Sage factory, take them home and wrap all the guides on the blanks and are paid at the same rate as those who choose to wrap rods here at the factory. It works well for Sage and well for the employees, as many of them are stay-at-home mothers who supplement their family income by working out of their home.
Where it is applicable, we allow employees generous education opportunities and other at-home work situations. We have all the normal health and retirement benefits, pay competitive rates for the Puget Sound Region, and do a better than average job of incorporating employee ideas and suggestions in our standard process and procedure improvement analysis.
HCF: Beside fly rods, Sage offers other products. Could you tell us about some of these products and if you plan on expanding in this area?
MB: We have a real passion around Sage for anything that is instrumental in making the cast. So obviously fly lines are an area where we have great interest and we would someday like to be basic in that business, although we think the products that we put out today (which are all made for us by Scientific Angler) are world class. Reels are obviously part of this equation as well, and while we recognize that it’s a tough business to be in, we still like and enjoy creating new reel products and we’ll put the current 3000 series reels up against any products (or fish) in the world. So rods, reels and lines are obviously what we want to be about. Our accessories are primarily about logoed marketing, and while we’re very pleased with what we achieve on this side of our business, we have no ambitions of expanding them further. Finally, since we have a huge core expertise in rolled, tapered, tubular graphite, exploring the non fly rod side of the equation has some interest to us, although it’s nothing that we are pursuing at this time.
HCF: With more women getting into fly fishing, does Sage have any plans for products designed specifically for them?
MB: We have been hearing for years that more women are getting into the sport, but our data simply do not bear that out. Our best indicator of consumer trends comes from our warranty cards, which are returned direct to us here on Bainbridge Island. The number of women purchasers of Sage rods holds constant at between 3-4% and that has been rock steady since the mid eighties. So if there are more women getting into the sport, we simply don’t see them, and while from time to time we hear about smaller grips or lighter rod models, when we bring in a group of women for a focus group they ALWAYS tell us that existing models cover their needs well. So no, we have no plans at present for any products built specially for women.
HCF: Other fly rod companies have augmented business by manufacturing products focused outside the fly fishing world. Does Sage produce anything besides fishing related products?
MB: Other than the aforementioned possible interest in non fly rods, no.
HCF: Several years ago, even though Sage had one of the best repair departments and warranty policies in the industry (and still does) the controversial Unconditional Lifetime Warranty was instilled. It was a problematic, costly policy to bring on board and one High Country Flies has disagreed with from the start. The fact of the matter is, Sage seems to have worked out all the wrinkles and the repair department is running like a Swiss Watch again. Have there ever been any second thoughts and are you looking at any creative changes for the future?
MB: Ah, warranty. We always joke around the factory that ultimately all questions about fly rods boil down to warranty or spey rods, the two subjects about which we seem to spend most of our time talking.
First of all, Sage didn’t invent the Lifetime Warranty. That was a brainchild of one of our competitors, which finally got picked up by a couple other of our competitors, which finally caused us to adopt it as well. We suppose from a consumer point of view that most anglers will think that’s a good thing and they’re glad we’re doing it, but that overlooks the one overriding objection we always had and still have about Lifetime Warranties—namely, it penalizes the individual who takes care of and respects his equipment while it rewards the individual who doesn’t. As the sign in the local diner always reminds you, there is no such thing as a free lunch and the costs of the Lifetime Warranty have simply been passed along through the system—by ALL manufacturers. Is that fair or just? We don’t necessarily think so.
But like toothpaste out of the tube, once out it’s difficult to get back in, and Lifetime Warranties appear hear to stay. Once Sage determined that we were going to make this transition, we also determined that we were going to get very good at it, and we think by any metric out there we have achieved this goal. Last year, for example, during the peak warranty weeks of the year (which are always summer) Sage achieved days when over 40% of the warranty product that came in in the morning went out that same afternoon. Warranty has always been a top priority at Sage, it is that way today and will remain that way in the future, regardless of what ever might happen to the Lifetime Warranty policy that is currently the industry standard. So while “yes” we do think about this policy from time to time, there are at present no thoughts about creative changes for the future.
HCF: Do you foresee the Internet changing the way that Sage will do business in the future?
MB: Five years ago the Internet was going to change everything and we all know where that landed. Since we don’t sell direct to consumers, we still see the Web as primarily another marketing, advertising and informational media, and that’s the way Sage uses it. The biggest change by which we are no doubt indirectly affected is the advent of eBay and other auction sites, which have provided yet another layer of challenge for our dealers. Obviously, that’s not about to go away, either.
HCF: The biggest growth in fly fishing history started around the time of Sage’s inception. OK, this expansion started a little bit after Sage. From Sage’s perception, what have been some of the pluses and minuses that Sage has reaped or incurred from this time? Could you elaborate on the preceeding question for fly fishing in general?
MB: There’s no doubt that around 1980 the forces of change began gathering momentum for the creation of the modern fly fishing industry. There’s also no doubt that the industry and sport have matured very quickly. Sage was obviously a beneficiary of this growth, having been at the forefront of the trend, and so from a business point of view it’s been a very good ride in a fun industry and sport. We’re also a bigger company than we used to be, and that of course also brings its challenges.
The biggest problem confronting the industry right now is growth. We’ve all experienced a lot of it, and we’re now at that point where it’s very hard to come by, and it’s also difficult to extend brand identities outside areas of core expertise. Additionally, fly fishing remains a reasonably difficult undertaking. It’s time consuming, relatively expensive, contingent on a natural resource and faces immensely stiff competition from everything from golf to professional wrestling and NASCAR to computer games. This puts fly fishing, as a sport, largely at odds with what huge swathes of the public are today interested in. We see no easy solutions as we look out over the next 5-10 years.
HCF: Though High Country Flies believes that the sport is still growing in numbers, it certainly has flattened out. And as in most businesses since 9/11, we are not seeing the numbers of new people getting into the sport nor the economic growth we once had. Long and short-term, how does Sage plan to meet this challenge?
MB: When you boil it all down, fly fishing has never been nor never will be an activity, which you can stimulate from the top down. There’s not enough money in the entire industry to advertise our way to growth, and every activity we’ve ever watched where gobs of money was thrown at the proposition has ended in remarkable failure. So fundamentally all we can do is hitch our star to the ups and downs of the consumer mood and be extremely ready when that new person does decide to stick his toe into our water. If there’s any tragedy post A River Runs Through It it’s that thousands of potential consumers were squandered by fly fishing professionals—manufacturers, retailers, guides alike—who simply weren’t ready for the challenge. Sage’s job, as is the job of every other participant in the business of fly fishing, is to make sure that these people have a quality experience that will start them on the lifetime achievement that really is the core of our sport. To that end, Sage will continue on both a short and long term basis to design, manufacturer, distribute, market and service the very finest products we possibly can at a variety of relevant price points, all created to insure that the consumer has the very best experience possible.
HCF: Ok, last question. For me, two all-time favorite fly rods are the 8’9” 3-weight LL and the 8’6” 5-weight SP. And the Sage 500 Series fly reels were the best trout reels ever built. Could you give us a few of your favorite Sage products and the reasons why?
MB: To a certain extent, I always fall victim to the “product I have most recently fished” syndrome. At age 51, I find I still enjoy fly fishing as much as I ever have (and in some ways more) and since days spent on the water are so enjoyable to me I always seem to return with fond memories of my equipment. Since I’ve just had a wonderful day fishing for steelhead on the Sauk and Skagit Rivers here in Washington State, let me first mention the 8100-4 XP which is a tremendous tool for all around single hand steelhead/large trout/salmon fishing. I’ve fished it all over the world and this baby just performs!
Beyond that, I’m real fond of the old light lines (Sage LL series) and share your predilection for the 389 myself, which was and is a magic old trout rod. We liked it so much that we just re-released it as the very first of the SAGE CLASSICS. I have an 890-3 RPLX which I won’t pass along to anyone in my lifetime and the first 0-weight that Jerry Siem ever designed which I love for small streams, preferably tiny spring creeks, chalk streams or mountain freestones. I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention the 9140-4 Spey Rod on which I’ve caught a lot of fish and really learned how to love fishing a two handed rod. Finally, as mentioned earlier I’ve fished our 3000 reels extensively and think they’re something that every angler ought to look at and I really think our Performance Taper Fly Line makes any Sage rod sing.
HCF: Thanks Marc.
MB: Thanks very much for asking and I hope this provides some interesting reading for everyone.
